There has not been a man that has put his body on the line for the wrestling business like Mick Foley in the history of the industry. The 45-year-old has taken more bumps, worked more twisted story lines than any other of his contempories suffering 6 concussions, 6 broken ribs, one broken jaw, two broken noses, as well as losing four front teeth, two-thirds of his ear – that’s not including the 300 stitches he has received during his career and the countless thumb tack holes. Simply Mick Foley has a complete disregard for his body.
Whether you remember him as Mick, Mankind, Dude Love, Cactus Jack, or you just recall Mr Socko, any memory will be shortly followed by painful images of thumbtacks, chair shots, and table crunching. Dubbed Mr Hardcore Foley is now back in the ring having left WWE to join rival brand TNA Wrestling, helping guide the new generation of high flying and technically gifted superstars.
With a new book Countdown to Lockdown: A Hardcore Journal out now Foley sat down with Sport.co.uk to discuss Wrestlemania rumours, falling from 16 feet, his message for Bret Hart, and what the future holds for the king of hardcore.
Hi Mick. Thanks very much for talking to us. You have worked for everyone in the business, ECW, NWA, WCW, WWE and now TNA. IF you could have worked for just one company which one would it had been?
(Mick takes a worried glance at TNA Wrestling PR Simon Rothstein and smiles). You know it is really an impossible question to answer to be honest. Because without WCW I wouldn’t have got to WWE, and I would have never gone to WCW without Memphis, so wrestling goes full circle to be honest. That really is a question I cannot answer in good conscience. I enjoyed aspects of all the companies, and I am really happy where I am now.
You came through in a golden generation of wrestling. Do you think wrestlers have it easier these days than when you were breaking through into the business? I know that in one of your first house shows Dynamite Kid closed lined you so hard you couldn’t eat solid food for two weeks.
That did hurt! I don’t know if they have it easier because sometimes the guys get their big chance in front of a national audience and knowing that you don’t get a second chance to make a first impression there is an awful lot of pressure on a young wrestler. At least I got to mess up in front of small crowds along the way, and then when I got my big opportunities I was more of a seasoned competitor. Even though in some ways it is easier I would not have liked that opportunity. I liked how it slowly evolved for me. The only way I was ever going to be successful was with a slow evolution.
Not meaning to cause offence Mick, but you aren’t exactly the archetypal Hulk Hogan muscle machine, was it harder to break through being a little different from the rest of the locker room?
What? What exactly are you saying tough guy? (laughs) You are right though, it was beneficial for me that I had a proven track record more than anyone, and people could point to me and see that fans enjoyed watching me.
I knew starting out that Vince McMahon was not a fan of my looks or style, but at least other guys in the business could say Mick Foley has a track record of getting fans interested.
What was it like when you first started out in the business in WCW. How happy were you to have made it to the big time?
It was a great feeling to get to that level, but WCW was a really frustrating environment to be honest because you couldn’t make the big money unless you were one of the top guys, but then they wouldn’t let you be a top guy unless you were making big money. They cornered themselves into a very difficult situation in terms of developing new talent, and that is why so many guys like me, Triple H, Golddust, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and he is the biggest example of this, were allowed to move and did much better.
Going one on one with Mr Hardcore
When you first started out was there anyone in the locker room who you were frightened of, or simply in awe of?
I have two experiences like that. One where I wondered aimlessly into centre stage theatre where WCW did there TV tapings and I was completely in awe of all these great guys I had seen on TV having fantastic matches. I was star struck.
Then when I first went to WWF in 1996 I had to stop and remind myself that I knew most of these guys and that I had wrestled with them before. When you first step into that locker room it is really overwhelming, again I am lucky that I had twelve years experience before that because I am not sure I could have dealt with the intimidating nature of it all.
Were there guys at that time, and during your career you didn’t want to get in the ring with?
Absolutely nobody. There were people who had reservations about working with me based on what they had seen me do in Japan. But I knew I was flexible in the ring, I just happened to really like that hardcore style.
You made your WWF debut in 1996 as Mankind. Where did the idea for that character come from?
It began with Vince McMahon not thinking I had the look of a star, and he desperately wanted to cover up my face. When I was travelling to Japan I was thinking about what sort of twist I could put on a character. It started of very dark but became lighter as time went on, which is probably the best thing that could have happened.
You were feuding with Undertaker straight away in a brilliant story line. It is one of my favourites and as a kid it creeped the hell out of me. How enjoyable was your bow as Mankind in the WWE?
Creepy is a good word because up until that point Undertaker had been wrestling a succession of big guys as that was thought as the only way to challenge the phenom. You had to be bigger than him. His list of Wrestlemania opponents read like Kamala, King Kong Bundy, and Giant Gonzalez, but I believe that someone suggested that he should face an opponent with more of a psychological threat.
I think the story line opened the door for people to see the Undertaker in a really different light. There was a guy in Taker then who could really tear the house down, at that was in 1996, and he is doing a better job of it now. I mean, I wish I could look at his matches and say that his matches were better then, but he is actually better today than he has ever been.
Did you enjoy pushing the boundaries of the mankind character?
I enjoyed getting into the character because it was different then anything I had ever done and it was nothing like anything I have ever done before. It really took some time to get into it in 1996, but the later 1999 version was almost exactly like me but just slightly goofier. That was one of best times I had in wrestling, doing the goofier mankind character.
One of the most iconic moments in wrestling folklore and your career was the King of the Ring Hell in the Cell match against the Undertaker when you were thrown 16 feet from the top of the cell with Jim Ross uttering the immortal words "Good God almighty! Good God almighty! They've killed him! You were then choke-slammed through the cage. Do you remember anything from the match?
I remember everything but landing through the announce table. But I loved it. Undertaker and I thought the cage would break a little but then we ended up having to do four or five choke-slams just to get the cage to rip a little bit. So he threw me off the top.
When we went back up and Undertaker choke-slammed me through the cage, to be honest, both of us were the most surprised people in the building. We actually couldn’t believe it gave way.
What did Vince McMahon say to you after that match?
Vince said: “You have no idea how much I appreciate what you just did, but I never want to see anything like that again.“ For all the people who will bring up stories of Vince being ruthless and manipulative, I can counter that with a story where he didn’t want me to ever put myself in that kind of jeopardy again.
Of the golden generation that came through in the nineties, you, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock and Triple H, who was the greatest?
Well it certainly was not me. You know there would have been no Rock without Stone Cold, so I think probably Austin, Taker, Triple H, The Rock, and Shawn Michaels making that terrific comeback, they would probably be my top five guys of that era.
And how is your relationship with The Rock these days? I understand it was frosty after a few over excessive chair shots in front of your family?
That was when he was Rocky. We had a good chat about that and I have not seen him in a couple of years, but I hear he speaks of me highly and regards me as a friend. And I speak of him highly and regard him as a friend too.
Was the famous Rock ‘n’ Sock connection the first time you could really be yourself as a wrestler. How much did you enjoy that storyline?
In the summer of 1998 I started to lighten up, mainly because my knees were beginning to go and I wanted to change things because I was slowing up. I started to realise how much more fun it could be, and ultimately how much more profitable it could be, and thankfully that sock added another year or two to my career.
Speaking of the Rock even when I was asked my thoughts on teaming with him at Wrestlemania in 2004, I said great, but I heard that he would only come back for something genuinely big, and the management said he thinks this is something big! I was shocked!
I didn’t think in his mind teaming with me was big, but he obviously thought it was something big. It meant a lot to me, and I guess unless he comes back again it looks like that match will be his last match ever, which is quite a complement for me.
When you left WWE and ended up signing for TNA. Did you feel at all let down by Vince?
Let down? I didn’t think the announcing job would be such a departure from my original relationship with Vince and what I had achieved in the ring. So I guess I was let down, but now I understand that was just part of the job, and I enjoy my job now a hell of a lot more. But I am happy I gave the announcing job a go though.
What was the appeal of TNA wrestling?
Another opportunity to make a difference, and everybody take pride in trying to make a difference to the product, and then of course we also like being paid. TNA gave me the chance to have it both ways to be honest. It’s great!
Is TNA more like old school WWF?
I actually don’t believe that in terms of the style of TNA, when people think of TNA they think of a faster paced style that has evolved. It is nice there is a place for some guys who are veterans and know the tricks of the trade and can help draw people to our show. I think when the veterans bring the fans in, and the fans then realise there is this unbelievable amount of young talent in the roster, that is what TNA is all about – the fantastic roster.
Which of the young talents are you championing at the moment? Who are the future leaders of the TNA locker room?
Well I have gone out of my way to talk about in the new book the Motor City Machine Guns. And I think that view was regarded when they had such great matches with Beer Money earlier in the year.
Some of the smaller guys who really tear down the house like Jay Lethal, who has had a chance to show what he can do from an entertainment perspective and I think he will go on to even bigger things are fantastic for TNA and have a huge future.
Plus I think the likes of Samoa Joe and AJ Styles, who are not new, but maybe to some wrestling fans are new are also great leaders and great attractions to fans.
Every week TNA is adding fans and losing fans, and the trick is to gain more fans than you lose. From top to bottom I feel TNA has a deeper roster than WWE, but the trick is to get the balance of airtime right.
Is TNA a better breading ground than WWE to develop wrestlers?
Yeah I think so. It certainly gives more of an opportunity to guys who are a smaller stature to be stars. WWE have done well with some guys of smaller stature, but the truth is some of the most talented guys are not that big. WWE has so many 6ft 6in guys, it really doesn’t mean anything anymore. Where as we have a place for guys like Amazing Red who is not huge, but who can really go and put on a show. If you want to go with TNA being the better breading ground, I am down with that.
And what is next for Mick Foley in TNA?
Honestly I am really enthused by this ‘Eliminate the Hate’ campaign that I think can do a lot of good for thousands of kids who are being bullied. I think we have a real chance to change the way people think about that problem in general.
I think being a weekly volunteer at a group called Rain in the USA gives me the credibility to talk about this problem. I think working behind this campaign is where I can do the most good, both for the company and for the business, and people in general.
I believe I can do more good helping out with the campaign than being a character on television.
I know you are good friends with Jim Ross. Is he the type of guy TNA need to attract?
I know TNA were in serious discussions with JR over coming over, but I don’t know where they are at with that. I don’t think it worked out. He has got such a great loyalty to WWE and I think he sees the benefit of not being on the road all the time and being in Oklahoma and enjoying his life. He is guy that put himself on the line for me in 1996 and I will always respect him for that, and thank him.
I am interviewing Bret Hart next week. What is your relationship with him like? Are you still close with him?
I am not as close as I should have been. I asked him to forgive me for not being much of a friend when he had the stroke. I guess if emailing and texting had been around it would have been easier to keep in touch. I just didn’t know what to say to him at that time. But I am really proud of the fact that on the US version of my book Bret put a cover quote, and he read it and he really liked it. It is a mark of respect that he was one of four I asked to read the book. My message to him would be I am proud to be his friend and I am thankful to have his friendship.
What would you change about modern wrestling? Do you think the storylines nowadays lack originality?
There are only so many storylines that you can use to get someone in the ring and settle your differences, and old storylines will always have a place, as they can be a foundation for a number of themes.
I think we can solve a lot of our problems by having more wrestling each week. My main problem since I got to TNA was that we have all these great talents in the locker room but they aren’t getting a chance to show their stuff. Simply there are too many back stage interviews and not enough wrestling going on.
In your opinion who is pound for pound the best wrestler to have ever lived?
I would say the Dynamite Kid. I am not in touch with him, I don’t think many people have spoken to him or seen him in years. You should ask Bret about him?
I certainly will. When was the last time you tried to contact him?
I tried to call him a couple of years ago. But it didn’t work out. It’s a shame as I worry for him but what a performer! Pound for pound he was the best. Bret’s book paints Tommy in an unflattering way, but I think some of the stuff was quite tough to read for me. Everyone has different shades and people must remember that, but as a wrestler the kid was the greatest, maybe Tery Funk just edges him for the complete package including promos and front of camera stuff, but on pure wrestling ability, the kid tops everyone.
Finally Mick. Wrestlemania is in Georgia next year and there are rumours of a WCW angle? With maybe yourself, Kevin Nash and Sting coming over from TNA. Is there any truth in the rumours?
Well Kevin Nash has left TNA, so he is free to do what he wants on that front, so you never know. It is great that there are rumours out there, but I am still under contract with TNA so I won’t be there I’m afraid. I couldn’t accept that offer even if I wanted to.
Mick Foley’s Countdown to Lockdown: A Hardcore Journal is out now in all good bookshops and on Amazon.co.uk
