A stalwart in defence for Crystal Palace, Aston Villa and Middlesbrough Gareth Southgate’s playing career at the top of the game stretched across three decades and 500 league appearances. Lauded as a dependable, gentlemanly figure and rewarded with 57 caps for England including appearances at three major international tournaments he is one of an elite band selected to captain every side he represented. With two League Cup titles to his name, as well as runners-up medals in the FA and UEFA Cups, the thoroughbred centre-half eventually made the seamless transition into management taking over from Steve McLaren in the dugout at Middlesbrough in 2006. After a three year stint at the Riverside, he has now turned his attention to punditry as well as ambassadorial duties on behalf of the England 2018 World Cup bid.
Sport.co.uk caught up with Southgate for an in-depth chat about England’s bid to host the World Cup, the state of the modern game in England, the selection issues facing Fabio Capello, the trials and tribulations of football management and the race for honours in the Premier League...all without mentioning THAT penalty miss and THAT Pizza Hut advert.
First things first Gareth, you’re an ambassador for England’s 2018 bid to host the World Cup. Does it surprise you that England has not hosted the tournament since 1966 given the country’s historical ties, infrastructure and standing in the football community?
It is a slight surprise but having said that it is important that every part of the world gets the opportunity to host the World Cup. There has always been that balance between taking the tournament from South America to Europe and vice versa and now it’s heading to Africa.
With regards to the 2018 bid, there is no reason for England not to come into consideration. Everybody knows the strength of our bid given the facilities that are already in place, but with the football history of the country and the attendances we get up and down the leagues it would obviously be a fantastic place to host the tournament.
How did it feel taking part in the European Championships on home turf in 1996? The whole country seemed to be on a high that summer...
It was an incredible tournament to be involved with; to represent your country at home was something extra special.
I think we are a cosmopolitan country now, we’ve got the Olympics coming here which will also be a fantastic experience but a lot of those events will be based in the south. While the London Games will give great encouragement to our youngsters to take up sport, a World Cup would be right across the country and will be accessible to far more people.
Reflecting on your managerial career thus far – what do you think you’ve learned so far during your time at Middlesbrough and how that will help you with future roles?
Well I think you learn an enormous amount. Obviously I hadn’t coached so I still had a player’s outlook on things when I started off. In the first couple of seasons we did pretty well finishing in 12th and 13th which represented a par finish for a club like Middlesbrough in the Premier League.
You learn the importance of attention to detail and have to manage people well. I think managing expectations level is probably the most difficult aspect because all clubs are keen to finish in the top half of the Premier League if they’ve gone up and if they survive they want it in the second or third season.
You need a full range of skills to manage a football club from financial to tactial, from man management to managing the media. It was a fantastic experience and three and a half years on when I lost the Boro job I knew I was far better qualified to do it.
Did you ever have someone who you could call for advice? Were there other managers in the game to whom you were close?
There were managers who I worked under who I would speak to but the reality of the situation is that you have to learn on your own. You have good people around you at the football club but you have to get on with it yourself. It is a job where a lot of the time you’re left with your own thoughts and that is something you have to get used to...
You worked under Steve McLaren, who is now doing well in Holland with FC Twente; would you consider testing yourself abroad if an exciting challenge arose?
I think there are stages in people’s lives when certain things are more important. At the moment for me my family is of an age where I’d prefer them to be based in this country...I think Steve’s kids are a bit older so he has had more flexibility to travel and take on that challenge.
Certainly I know people in other professions who have moved abroad and are having a great time so I wouldn’t rule it out. At the moment though, I’d prefer to stay in England.
Harry Redknapp pointed out last week that the influx of foreign owners has obviously influenced the number of foreign coaches taking top jobs in England. Do you think it is harder for a young English coach to make his way in the game?
I think inevitably foreign ownership has seen an influx of foreign managers, in the same way that the arrival of foreign managers has seen a deluge of foreign players. It’s natural that someone would be more inclined to employ people that they know and have knowledge about. But that is the challenge facing English managers as it is players; the opportunities are there if people are good enough.
I think the hard part is that the time scale which people are given to prove themselves is very short. Mark Hughes is a classic example; him and his management team had proved themselves to be excellent at Blackburn Rovers but the window for success at a bigger club is very small. People need time to implement all their ideas.
Likewise, quick-fire success can see people earn rapid promotions. Steve McLaren for instance found himself as England coach after only one full-time management position. Granted he had been an integral part of Manchester United’s success but it still represented a fast progression up the ranks...what did you make of his time in the Wembley dugout?
People would say it was a rapid rise but Steve had a long coaching career at both Derby County and Manchester United before taking the Middlesbrough post. He still had a fair bit of experience but the key was timing.
You can look back at the critical games in that period and I’m sure that Steve will admit that things didn’t go as he wanted but when you look at that final game against Croatia at Wembley he was missing half of his back four and those things can have a crucial outcome on games.
I’m sure Steve learned an enormous amount from the experience and he’s proving in Holland that he is still a good coach.
Talking about selection headaches at national team level, it appears that Fabio Capello has his work cut out finding solutions to the injury problems mounting up before the World Cup. There is obviously a great deal of debate opening over his options for the wing spots, goalkeeper and now at left-back. If you were picking the side tomorrow who would pick?
It’s very difficult. When England qualified there was a real feel good factor about the campaign and then in the last two months, through no fault of Fabio Capello, things have been fairly horrific. That is one of the problems of international management; prior to the friendly with Egypt he hadn’t had a game for three months and yet he’s lost players left, right and centre for various reasons. That must be hugely frustrating for him.
At the moment there are huge doubts fitness wise over both full-backs and you keep your fingers crossed that the first two centre-halves [John Terry and Rio Ferdinand] remain fit. There are almost more questions than answers. I’m sure in his mind Fabio’s first choice team is pretty much the one that qualified but even the back-ups now have question marks. Obviously Wayne Bridge has pulled out, Wes Brown has picked up an injury and with Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson out its worrying.
You want your players to be playing regularly at this stage but that is a situation that is clearly not going to happen with Cole, Johnson or Brown. Being short of match practice could certainly hurt England in the summer.
Have you ever experienced anything similar to the Wayne Bridge – John Terry situation and in your view how do off-field relationships affect on-pitch performance?
Every scenario is different and it’s not something that I have come across. The reality now though is that Wayne has made a decision [not to play for England] and has simplified the situation for everybody. He obviously felt that he couldn’t play under those circumstances and if he had that element of doubt in his mind then it is the right decision to step down.
Things are straightforward for Fabio now; he has Terry in the squad, he has made a decision on the captaincy which had to happen after the media furore and he has an England game under his belt...things are now done and dusted. Now they have to concentrate on pure football matters and the next get together at the end of the season. Fabio will just be hoping that nothing comes up because we have a great habit in this country of shooting ourselves in the foot!
Theo Walcott has come in for some criticism recently; do you think that has been deserved or have people just jumped on the bandwagon too swiftly?
Theo is still a young player learning his trade. When you play for England the most difficult part is that every single time you touch the ball you will be judged and analysed because the games are so sporadic at this time of year. If you play for sixty minutes of a game, you might get twenty touches so everything you do with a ball is going to be scutinised. Dealing with that is one of the most important factors of being an England international – you have to be able to cope.
He has good people with him at Arsenal who will be very supportive. He has a good family background and he certainly seems a smashing kid but he is a young player and young players will make mistakes and will have to continue to learn the game.
The position he plays for England is the one where there is arguably the most competition. While we’re running out of full-backs and centre-backs, the two wide areas have Walcott, Aaron Lennon, Shaun Wright-Phillips, David Beckham, Ashley Young, Stewart Downing, Joe Cole – there is tremendous depth. At the moment Steven Gerrard occupies one of those positions!
After the Croatia qualifying game away from home I think everybody assumed Theo would be a definite to go to the World Cup. However, he is still not playing regularly enough for Arsenal and that makes things difficult. He is still clearly somebody that Fabio Capello would like to take because we have all seen what he is capable of; his form between now and the end of the season will dictate what happens.
Obviously you worked closely with Adam Johnson while at the Riverside and he’s another player whose name has been thrown into the England hat. How good is he and do you think he’s worth a place on the plane to South Africa?
I’m sure that in time Adam will develop into a talented player but I don’t think he is ready for this World Cup. He hasn’t been in any of the squads up to now and I don’t think Fabio is likely to start bringing in people who haven’t been involved up to this point.
In the wide areas he has lots of experience and Adam’s time will come. He’s had a fantastic move to Manchester City and he’ll be on a great stage over the next couple of years to force his way into the European Championship squad.
Johnson is just one of many young English talents that came through the Academy during your time at Middlesbrough; what was the key to your success?
I would say that the opportunity to play was the most important factor. We had a period where my philosophy was to give youngsters a chance. Financially we had to try and balance the books; in doig that we gave players a chance that they might not have had.
We had one group of exceptional players which included Stewart Downing and Adam Johnson but whether the other guys that got in the team were any better than those at other clubs is debateable. What they had though was a route into the first team and without such an opportunity it’s hard to get anywhere in the game.
The key for all young players is to play and that is why it is so difficult for them when they move to a big club and become squad players. Ideally for their development they need to be in the first team. It is a decision that lots of young players will face but in my opinion they should always ask themselves ‘am I going to play?’
Was Arsenal’s Academy system regarded as something of a model to follow, or was Boro’s decision based solely on personal circumstances?
I think we had to have our own philosophy. We had a very well run Academy including a team which six or seven years ago had reached the FA Youth Cup final and two years later won it. We knew we had talent there but my eyes were also on the finances. I knew we had a huge overdraft and one of the ways to solve that was to breed our own talent and possibly sell them on.
Unfortunately we suffered on the pitch because with young players you get a differing level of performance. That being said if you analyse the transfer fees we received, Downing was £12 million, Johnson is reportedly around £8 million, Lee Cattermole around £4 million and several others went for one or two million. Without that there would have been an even greater gap in the finances than there is now. I think as a club we were justified in doing that at the time but unfortunately we didn’t manage to stay in the Premier League. Results are everything and we weren’t able to get them.
Looking at some of the burning issues which have been hogging the headlines in recent weeks, as a central defender what did you make of the Ryan Shawcross tackle of Aaron Ramsey and is there anything that can be done to prevent such horrific injuries?
I have to be honest and say that that tackle was a dreadfully unfortunate incident. Sometimes there is just a huge degree of bad luck involved and I don’t think there was any intention from Ryan Shawcross to hurt Aaron Ramsey. When you look at the challenge in slow motion, you unfortunately see Aaron Ramsey’s planted foot take the impact.
There is an unbelievable amount of emotion involved in an incident like that and for Arsenal in particular, having had three in the last few years, it becomes even more poignant. Having seen Ryan Shawcross play I don’t think he is the type to go and hurt somebody, a closer look reveals it being mistimed and late but with the player aiming for the ball. It was just a terribly unlucky incident.
As a former Aston Villa player how do you see the race for fourth shaping up? Villa have a few games in hand but it is certainly very tight alongside Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City...
I think they can do it, but it is a really tough one to call. Liverpool’s result on Monday [against Wigan] is another that people would not have expected and just shows another twist in the race. All four of those teams are bang in the mix; they could all between now and the end of the season find themselves in fourth position and like a game of pass-the-parcel, when the music stops someone is going to be fourth.
I think it is very hard to distinguish between them; they all have outstanding attacking players, they are all capable of scoring goals. I really think it is wide open and I don’t see a favourite amongst them. It is almost impossible to call.
The defeats suffered by the top three and Liverpool’s apparent fall from grace have seen this season shape up as one of the most unpredictable ever. What have you made of the rollercoaster events?
It has been a long time since three teams have so closely fought for the title so that is a refreshing change. However, the concern is that in the bottom half of the table, aside from Sunderland, the teams very much reflect team budgets.
Money dictates a huge amount, there will always be slight anomalies but more often than not a small budget ties with fighting relegation; not only because you can’t attract better players but the lack of money affects the supporters and the mindset of the players. If you’ve just been promoted there is a freshness about the challenge to stay up, if you’ve been in it a while and still have a small budget it is a harder job motivating people to stay as positive as you need them to be.
The fourth place race is an interesting story but ten years ago when I finished fourth with Villa I just used to think that is three places from where we need to be. Now it’s as though you’ve swum the Channel, when you get fourth place. It just shows the domination of the top teams now and also a change in mindset.
For me if I was at Villa at the moment I would be wanting to win the FA Cup because trophies are what you remember. Cups and medals are what you cherish; finishing fourth is great financially for the club and gives you a taste of the Champions League, but actually when you’ve ended your career it is not something that will stick with you.
Finally Gareth, who do you think will win the Premier League this season?
I could give you a really good reason why all three could win it, but the team that keeps getting ruled out are Arsenal and it is amazing that they are still there. Fixture wise the Gunners have a better run-in.
I wouldn’t bet on anybody at the moment as it is so tight but I would certainly not rule out Arsenal. There is an interesting scenario with United and Chelsea having to play each other and both of them facing Liverpool as well as a couple of other big games.
I wouldn’t put big money on them but watch out for Arsenal. That being said you’d be foolish to write-off any of the three sides. United have been unbelievable at keeping pace despite their defensive injuries and Chelsea have looked the strongest all season but somehow Arsenal are still there. It is remarkable really.
Gareth Southgate is an England 2018 Ambassador. Fans can join Gareth in Backing the Bid by texting ‘ENGLAND’ to 62018 or by visiting www.england2018bid.com where you can also find the latest bid news, video and imagery. Fans can play a major role England’s bid by demonstrating the country’s unrivalled passion for football to the world. Hundreds of thousands of fans from more than 140 countries have already backed the bid and high-profile supporters include David Beckham, Lewis Hamilton, Amir Khan, Sting and Noel Gallagher.